raymond frantz

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Posts by raymond frantz

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  18

  Alternative Military Service is Now OK

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  but i wonder: how many jw's went to prison during the years that the wt did not allow them to perform community service as an alternative to military service?.

  anyone care to take a stab at the numbers?.

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  raymond frantz

  Thousands in Greece from 1945 to 1995, I ended up doing 3 years in prison for these cretins
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  7

  This verses will get you disfellowshipped in 2024

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://youtu.be/cefnvubzxce?si=edha3qmax4fxlwqq.

  everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the christ does not have god.

  the one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the father and the son.

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/cefNvuBzXcE?si=edHA3QmaX4fxLwqQ

  Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him

  According to Mark Sanderson in his latest jwupdate #2 these verses in 2 John 9-11 will render you unredimable in 2024. No greeting at the meeting, no invite to attend a meeting at the kingdom hall and no visit from the elders. The Governing Body has decided these verses are about apostates which in jw language is anyone who opposes the Governing body and their authority. But is this the case? And what about this teaching of Christ these verses mention here.Let's find out.

  The verse never mentions the word apostate, in fact you won't find this word anywhere in the 2 letter of John which consists of 1 chapter. On the other hand verse 9 clearly says that the "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God" So is this "teaching of Christ" disobedience towards Mark Sanderson and his buddies OR something entirely different?

  As always the context defines the meaning and so is the case here, because the disqualifier from being greeted as a brother or a sister here is that you deny the "teaching of Christ". With that in mind look what verse 7 has to say about this:

  For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist

  Notice that there was a specific issue the apostle John was addressing here and that was the fact that some were refusing that Jesus came in the flesh. Last time I checked most of those who left the Witnesses and are still Christians do not refuse that Jesus came in the flesh. In fact don't know of anyone in the world today that claims such a thing. Most programs or documentaries or scholars take that as a fact, that Jesus came in the flesh.

  So by only this clarification no exjw can be classed as an apostate.But what exactly did John mean?

  Apparently during the end of the 1st century AD a new group of false Christians had emerged, the Docetists, yes I know strange name, from the original Greek dókēsis whicj mesns "apparition or phantom".

  Docetism is broadly defined as any teaching that claims that Jesus' body was either absent or illusory. Two varieties were widely known. In one version Christ was so divine that he could not have possibly been human, since God lacked a material body, which therefore could not physically suffer. Jesus only appeared to be a flesh-and-blood man; his body was an simply apparition. Other groups who were accused of docetism held that Jesus was a man in the flesh, but Christ was a separate entity who entered Jesus' body in the form of a dove at his baptism, empowered him to perform miracles, and abandoned him upon his death on the cross.

  In fact if you want to see what Docetism looks like today, thr following passage from the Quran is a strong contender, Quran 4:157:

  And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

  It doesn't qualify all the criteria of Docetism but it sure looks like an attempt to diminish the the physical presence of Christ on the cross and many scholars have attempted in the past to tie that in with the Docetism of the first few centuries of the Church.

  Now, this is a far cry from the definition of an apostate that the governing body slaps on their opposers and by doing so they seek to deceive you so you can believe their lies and to continue persecuting those that expose them.

  For such men as the governing body members including Mark Sanderson the Bible is quite clear. In 2 John verse 7 we learn that after Jesus came here on earth "many deceivers have gone out into the world" .Interestingly the cross reference of the word "deceivers" in the NWT translation takes us to Matthew 7:15

  Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.

  Those who try to deceive you with erroneous interpretations of verses such as 2 John 9-11 in order to push their agenda to persecute their opposers are the "deceivers" and "the wolves in sheep's clothing" they are better known as the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses
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  108

  Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? The recent changes and the Governing Body's 10 year plan

  by redsetter2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am sure we were all shocked at the governing body update #2 with the unusual and impulsive changes set forth.. i am an insider at whq, and when i was on reddit and in communication with avoidjw i explained to the best of my ability that the approach on disfellowshipping was going to change based on the new light at the 2023 agm, that the jubilee rumor was false, and there were going to be changes on how jws approached disfellowshipping in response to the norway situation if it didn't turn out in watchtower's favor.

  the decision came because of a legal blow to watchtower, not because "holy spirit" wad directing a faithful slave, who is going to become the "evil slave", more explanation on this soon.. everything i stated came true.

  i left reddit exjw community due to the immature and mentally unstable nature there, and yet as has been the case my words came true.

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  raymond frantz

  Redsetter2,

  I have dm you back
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  1

  The END of DISFELLOWSHIPING AS we KNOW IT

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/1cceao2-tcc?si=ort5myfa1w5umksz.

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  raymond frantz

  https://youtu.be/1cCEAo2-Tcc?si=Ort5myFa1W5UMKsz
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  141

  THANK YOU Steven Unthank

  by cedars in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  ohiocowboy has just posted this information on the two other threads dealing with the sudden collapse of the unthank cases.. i don't know steven unthank, but i just want to thank him from the bottom of my heart for having the courage against overwhelming odds to try and bring the watch tower society to justice over their deplorable neglect when it comes to protecting children from abuse and molestation.. steven is a man of justice and integrity who i deeply admire.

  his actions will never be forgotten, and i only hope he can find it within himself to continue his work in whatever avenue may become available in the future.. they have won this battle, but they can never win the war.. .

  cedars.

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  raymond frantz

  It's just pure gold isn't??? From page 12

  You clearly have an axe to grind with me, and I wish you'd drop it (preferably not near my neck)! You have one opinion, I have another
  
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  20

  NORWAY Verdict : The Aftermath

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.jwupdates.com/post/watchtower-will-take-norwegian-defeat-to-echr.

  few norwegian religious communities need to worry after the jehovah's witnesses verdict, according to legal expert vibeke blaker strand.

  he has pointed out that it is particularly serious to deprive a religious community of its registration.

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  raymond frantz

  I find it hard watching someone (watchtower examination) who has never been a Witness making videos about Jehovah's Witnesses, I wonder what his motives are
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  20

  NORWAY Verdict : The Aftermath

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  https://www.jwupdates.com/post/watchtower-will-take-norwegian-defeat-to-echr.

  few norwegian religious communities need to worry after the jehovah's witnesses verdict, according to legal expert vibeke blaker strand.

  he has pointed out that it is particularly serious to deprive a religious community of its registration.

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  raymond frantz

  https://www.jwupdates.com/post/watchtower-will-take-norwegian-defeat-to-echr

  Few Norwegian religious communities need to worry after the Jehovah's Witnesses verdict, according to legal expert Vibeke Blaker Strand. The verdict against the Watchtower will not trigger an avalanche of new cases.

  Professor Vibeke Blaker Strand believes the Jehovah's Witnesses verdict will stand up in the European Court of Human Rights, unlike human rights expert Dag Øystein Endsjø.

  The verdict It is completely in line with the new Religious Communities Act, which involves stricter regulation of religious communities than before, says Vibeke Blaker Strand, professor at the Department of Public Law at the University of Oslo.

  Jehovah's Witnesses filed a lawsuit against the state two years ago after being deprived of state subsidies and registration as a religious community. On Monday, the state was acquitted in the Oslo district court.

  In Vårt Land(=major Norwegian newsoutlet), human rights expert Øistein Endsjø has been critical of the verdict . He has pointed out that it is particularly serious to deprive a religious community of its registration.

  Both Austria and Russia have already been convicted in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) for this, so then Norway can only join the ranks of countries that have been convicted for not recognizing Jehovah's Witnesses as a religious community, he told the newspaper.

  Vibeke Blaker Strand disagrees. She believes there is a significant difference between the cases mentioned and the current case in Norway.

  Far more invasive in Russia- This judgment does not deprive Jehovah's Witnesses of the opportunity to be a religious community and operate as they wish. This is only about being a publicly registered religious community, which gives them state support and the right to marry, says Blaker Strand.

  In countries like Russia, refusal to register is far more invasive, she points out. There, the activity of Jehovah's Witnesses is prohibited.

  According to the judgement, the Jehovah's Witnesses' exclusion practice involves "serious violations of the rights and freedoms of others". Through its guidelines and practice for exclusion, the court believes that Jehovah's Witnesses encourage "to shun members who are ostracized or withdraw, so that with few exceptions they are exposed to social isolation from those remaining in the religious community".(CRITICAL: Dag Øistein Endsjø is professor of religious history at the University of Oslo. He does not think the recent judgment will stand up to the European legal system.)

  https://youtu.be/ZIJ88Qq6xFU

  Generous arrangementJehovah's Witnesses were deprived of grants and registration in reference to the new Religious Communities Act which entered into force on 1 January 2021. With the new law, the state wants to give some signals to religious communities, as Blaker Strand sees it.

  - In the past, we have had a generous financial support scheme that does not make demands on religious communities, but over time, greater attention has been paid to children's and women's rights. With the new law, the authorities must prevent the state from supporting practices that go too far in violating the rights of individuals.

  According to the Religious Communities Act, the state can therefore refuse grants and registration to religious communities that, for example, violate children's rights.

  - That Jehovah's Witnesses are stripped of their registration and denied state funding is just a natural consequence of the direction the Storting has taken, she believes.

  Religious taste policeThe editor-in-chief of Dagen, Vebjørn Selbekk, has on several occasions spoken out critically about the new religious communities act. He believes it gives the authorities "an unpleasant opportunity to act as religious taste police and then punish religious communities financially".

  He therefore believes that the Jehovah's Witnesses case is of fundamental importance:

  "It is not difficult to imagine that other religious communities with teachings and practices that are disputed in an increasingly secular society will also be affected," he wrote in a comment a couple of years ago .(www-dagen-no.translate.goog/meninger/na-ko…)

  Vibeke Blaker Strand understands that the verdict may cause unrest in several religious communities, but believes that very few have cause for concern.

  - The case of Jehovah's Witnesses is an extreme point. It is, among other things, about negative social control of children. It is something other than conservative interpretations of religious texts. I therefore do not believe that this will trigger an avalanche of new cases. With this judgment, there should still be room for a conservative religious community.

  I think the state has a good case in the ECHRJehovah's Witnesses have not yet decided whether they will appeal the verdict to the Court of Appeal. Should the case end up at the top of the legal system, Blaker Strand believes that the state has a good case.

  - It is a judgment that will stand up in the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), she says.

  She believes the ECHR will look closely at the state's justification for the new Religious Communities Act.

  - In working with it, the authorities have discussed the importance of religious freedom for religious communities, but also the rights of individuals. When the legislature has considered what they think weighs most heavily, it takes a lot for the ECHR to verify the state. There are many examples of this.(THE STATE: Government attorney Liv Inger Gjone Gabrielsen (th) was the state's legal representative in the trial. Here together with legal assistant and government lawyer Kristin Hallsjø Aarvik.)

  Objective criteriaThe government attorney is satisfied that the district court has acquitted the state.

  - The court attaches particular importance to the fact that the exclusion practice violates children's rights. It violates the right to free expression, which is an important part of freedom of religion. The court also believes that the social isolation that comes with the practice of exclusion, or the fear of being exposed to it, poses a risk of serious damage to children's health and well-being, government lawyer Kristin Hallsjø Aarvik writes to Vårt Land.

  She highlights several aspects of the judgment that have been upheld, including:

  - The court points out that it follows from the ECHR's practice that it is permissible to have arrangements that grant privileges to certain religious communities, as long as these are based on objective criteria, which is the conditions in the Religious Communities Act, she writes.
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  46

  Lloyd Evans Patreoff Pool April 2024

  by DerekMoors in

  1. social
  2. humour

  you know the drill.

  here's an updated chart and i'm using 356 because that's where he's at today.

  please let me know if there's anything you think might be added.

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  raymond frantz

  345 please
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  71

  Lloyd Evans Patreoff Pool March 2024

  by DerekMoors in

  1. social
  2. humour

  for those still interested in lloyd's fall from grace, i made up a chart of my own.

  april 2023 is when he put out his "things are bad" tin cup begging video, and he got a small surge to 592 on the 13th of that month.

  i'm also using his all-time peak of 897 from november 2022.. for march, we're gonna say a modest -15, putting him at 352. i'm also curious as to when he might hit 300 and then 200. if he keeps up with an average of -20 every month, he'll be at less than 190 before the end of this year.. happy guessing everyone..

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  raymond frantz

  Congrats Derek & Ina
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  3124

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  raymond frantz

  How do you know his sister is on benefits
  

  Mike jw, I'm from.the same congregation and yes his family is in the clique and nothing is impossible for them